Hera Navassardian was 21 when she began modeling for Bob Mackie, Geoffrey Beene, Zandra Rhodes, among others. During her 30-plus years in fashion, Navassardian has also worked as a makeup artist and stylist. In 2007 she opened Klymaxx Unlimited, a boutique and transformation studio in Provincetown, Mass. which serves women and men, with a unique emphasis on transgendered people in the process of transitioning. Navassardian has got plenty to share in this fascinating conversation.
Sandi: Welcome to another edition of Conversations with Creative Women. I’m Sandi Klein. What’s in a name? Meet Hara Navassardian. Who shares the same first name as the Queen of the Gods in Greek Mythology. This Hera, has spent just about all her life in the fashion and beauty industry. At 21, she began working as a model in New York City for Bob Macky, Jeffery Bean, Sandra Rhodes, and many other designers. During her 30+ years in the business, Hera has also worked on the other side of the camera, as a makeup artist and stylist for Este Lauder, Chanel, and Creative London. In 2008, her passion for beauty and fashion led Hera to Province Town Massachusetts where she established Klymaxx Unlimited, her own accessory boutique and transformation studio for women and men. It’s there she offers makeup, image style consultation, skin care, hair and wig styling, as well as costume creation and composition through workshops, seminars, and private consultations; this includes working with the LGBT Community. Hera says her greatest passion has been and continues to be her association with the Fantasia Fair, an event now in its 40th year that features 350 cross-dressing and transgender attendees from all over the world. In 2012, Go Magazine named Hera one of the 100 Women We Love.
Hera. Welcome. I have a feeling that by the time this conversation is over, plenty of women are going to love you, right.
Hera: I hope so.
Sandi: So, the first line of the Go Magazine profile reads “Hera Navassardian was born for fashion.”
How come, and why?
Hera: My mother was my influence. She was my idol and my hero. Single mother, only child. No siblings. I tended to lean towards my mother. She was my everything. Watching her doing what she used to do because she was an opera singer for many years in the Boston Conservatory. She used to put on her own makeup, make her own gowns because she was a dressmaker, and she would perform as a mezzo soprano. So, watching this, from a young age influenced me.
Sandi: Every day was dress up.
Hera: Every day was dress up. That’s what did together. Therefore, it’s in my blood. That’s how it all started.
Sandi: So, as you got older, logic sort of dictated, and I guess in addition to beauty and talent that was the road you were going to pursue as opposed to going to college and studying science.
Hera: Pretty much so. My mother wanted it that way. First she thought I was going to be an airline stewardess. When it was a prestigious thing to do.
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: That didn’t work out for me. Then she sent me off to modeling school many years ago. When it was also prestigious too. Was Barbizon.
Sandi: Yea, but not everybody can be a model.
Hera: No. But, I was tall. I was thin,
Sandi: You’re pretty.
Hera: I was pretty, thank you. Thank you very much.
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: It just seemed like something to try. Because, again, when I use the word prestigious, it really was at that point in time. You had to have a certain look. A certain type. One thing that I will say, that was a little difficult for me in those days. I am dark haired with dark eyes.
Sandi: And dark skinned.
Hera: And dark skinned. So
Sandi: Did that work against you or did that make you kind of something that people would gravitate toward because it was unusual?
Hera: A little bit of both.
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: In the beginning I saw that the market indeed loved blonde and blue eyes. My agent at the time, Vandevier people it was. She took me on. She said, “You’re going to be different.”
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: If you looked at the whole headshots of all of the models at the time, I stuck out. I did it. I enjoyed it. I loved it. It was rewarding. It taught me a great lesson in life.
Sandi: What kind of a model were you?
Hera: Runway, photos, print ads, showroom mostly. A lot of showroom. It was a little bit of everything as far as that’s concerned.
Sandi: It’s lucrative, but it’s also, not exhausting but it’s also incredibly hard work isn’t it?
Hera: It is, it is.
Sandi: I mean, for those of us looking in, it’s not so glamorous is it?
Hera: It’s not. Now that they have all those great TV shows, the Next Top Model, you get a chance, if you’re even interested, to see how these young women have to do what they have to do. The way they have to do it. There’s no room for boo-hoo or drama or anything like that. Not that that was part of my DNA anyhow.
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: I just loved anything and everything they threw at me. So, I embraced it. I loved it. I did it for as long as I thought I could. Then, I moved on to the next chapter because, sooner or later, that ends.
Sandi: That’s kind of funny. One has no control over that.
Hera: I know.
Sandi: They tell you, you’re done Hera.
Hera: I felt I was done. I was approaching my thirties. For me, that was the next phase of my life. This is something that sooner or later; now a days it’s different. Women can still model in their sixties. I mean, we have great models still out there. But in those days, you had to be young, fresh, new. Before they said bye-bye, I said bye-bye.
Sandi: What about the whole body image thing? Were you anorexic?
Hera: No. No. I was just very lucky. I exercised. I have been ever since them. I ate properly. My mother being Middle Eastern, we didn’t have frozen foods. We didn’t have candy or chocolates or anything like that. Everything was fresh and green. Also my genetics. My mother and father were strong, healthy, beautiful people.
Sandi: Umm Hmm.
Hera: I inherited all of that. I was not anorexic. To me as a matter of fact, all of that is, it goes against my grain.
Sandi: When you knew that it was time for you to get off the runway, so to speak, and move behind the cameras. What did you think you were going to do?
Hera: I knew that I had enough talent at the time that I could walk into any kind of an agency. Tell them that I know what it was like to be on the other side, so I have enough experience and education to put me on the other side of the camera. Which, when I went to John Casablanca’s, they hired me as a booking agent.
Sandi: That’s a modeling agency.
Hera: Yes, it is. It was, at the time, one of the top three.
Sandi: Along with Ford, right?
Hera: Yes. And Elite, of course.
Hera: It was wonderful. It was exactly what I wanted to do at the time. I had a sitting job. I got to interview. I got to work with women and men who were getting ready for photo shoots. Getting ready for runway. I taught classes for them on skin care at that time; because of what I used to do. I know. I started at the age of sixteen. Taking care of my skin and my body.
Sandi: So, it’s just a very natural progression for you.
Hera: Very much so.
Sandi: Then, what happened after that?
Hera: Well, that became a little boring.
Sandi: [Laughing] Uh Huh. Not nearly as glamorous?
Hera: It was glamorous because I made other people look beautiful. I was their stylist and their makeup artist. Every time they did a runway show, I was behind the scenes getting them dressed. Putting them on the runway. Getting their hair done. Doing their makeup. Putting their clothes together as a stylist. It was exciting. I won’t say that I get bored easily, but I want challenges in my life, so that challenge was over and done with. I moved on. At that point, then, I started to go to the big companies. Chanel. Crème de Le Mare. Creed of London. All of these different companies throughout Bergdorf, Barneys, Sacs Fifth Avenue, Henry Bandelles. These are the places I went to, because again, today’s venue is so different than it was back then.
Back then, you didn’t do emailing resumes. You walked in and you showed yourself. You presented yourself.
Sandi: To do what?
Hera: Becoming a makeup artist for the companies. Being skin care analysis.
Sandi: Working in the store?
Hera: Yep. Yep.
Sandi: That was, I use that term in quotes, “glamorous”?
Hera: It was to me.
Sandi: To be a makeup person at Bergdorf?
Hera: Umm Hmm
Sandi: Wow. That’s interesting.
Hera: Yes it was.
Sandi: So, it’s not that you worked for Chanel at Chanel’s headquarters?
Hera: I had launched one of their greatest perfumes that is out now, called Le Exclusives.
Sandi: Mm Hmm.
Hera: I launched their perfumes. I worked with fragrances. I brought it to America and worked with that. I brought into Bergdorf. To me, it was again, a challenge. Something entirely new. I admire and I love Coco Chanel. Her whole life story to me is very inspiring. To bring this new line, and every bottle of that particular fragrance has something to do with her life. The names of the fragrances, the titles, has something to do with her life. To me, again, this was a challenge. Nobody knew it. People were coming from all over. Being a resident makeup artist for Este Lauder at Sacs Fifth Avenue, when people came to me for me to do their faces. Yes. It was quite, remember I’m getting a little bit older now,
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: So, it was a little bit more comfortable.
Sandi: People coming and maybe not as crazy?
Hera: Not as crazy and dealing with one client at a time. Profiling them. Working with them. Selling them the products that I believe in. That’s the only way, including with my store, I’ve been as successful. Every company I’ve worked for, I so believe and love their product. I loved Chanel, and I loved Crème de Le mare for instance. It was a miraculous cream that saved the creators face, who got burnt in an accident. There’s history.
Hera: Yea. That’s Max Hubert. He used to work for NASA. He was working on a project, the project exploded and burnt three quarters of his face. From his chest up to his face. He went to every plastic surgeon. He went everywhere he could. No one would fix him. They said there’s nothing we can do for you. So, for the next twelve years, converted his garage into a laboratory and he started to brew a miraculous broth they call it. It takes at least three months to make one batch of the cream.
Sandi: And it’s still on the market today?
Hera: Absolutely. Bigger and better than ever.
Sandi; I forgot. I want to just focus on the fact that you were a Bob Mackey model. At some point. There was no name bigger than he, in terms of Hollywood. Cher, Diana Ross. What was that like?
Hera: Absolutely delicious. I felt like a million dollars. This was actually in the fur industry because for a short period. Well not even short. For a long period of time, when I was modeling, I had gotten done with the clothes. My agent, of course, said to me. I’m going to send you off. You have a go see. It’s in the fur industry. You’re going to go to the showroom and you’re going to… I said, I don’t even own a fur coat, what do you mean showroom. She said, just go, you can do it. So, I went. I walked in, I was very intimidated.
Sandi: How old were you?
Hera: Oh, God. Umm twenty seven? Very glamorous showroom. Now, I’m coming out for the owners. I was by myself. They brought over this beautiful, full length, ranch mink coat. Put it on me, and said, “Walk and show me what you can do”. It was like, as if it was hand and glove, Sandi. As soon as I put the coat on, I transformed myself.
Sandi: I was just going to say, it was a transformative
Hera: It was.
Sandi: Mm Hmm. Mm Hmm.
Hera: I turned with it. I did everything they wanted me to do that was right. I was hired on the spot. So, down the road, who does it turn out, that the designer that I’m going to be working with. As far as production, as far as modeling the coats, as far as, it was Bob. The first time I saw him, because again, back then, I knew who he was. Now sometimes these young kids will say Bob
Sandi: I know.
Hera: Isn’t it a shame? We shook hands, and for me it was love at first sight. He was kind, and sweet. Shy,
Sandi: Not temperamental in that
Sandi: stereotypical screaming and
Hera: No. No. I worked for Michael Coors for a little while and Jeffery Bean. One of my favorite love stories about Jeffery Bean is fact that when we knew he was going to come to the showroom to visit us, they would send me out to go buy an orchid. Because, he had to be presented with an orchid at his arrival into the showroom.
Hera: Alright. So, is Bob like that? Absolutely not. No. No. It started then and it went on for years. Then of course, you know what happened with the whole fur industry and the animal activists.
Hera: Many of the companies I had worked with and along with, they all went, some of them went down. Some of them downsized. But it took a big hit. Therefore, I decided again, it’s time to leave.
Sandi: If you’re just joining us, my guest today is Hera Navassardian. How do you describe her? Former model, beauty and makeup artist, entrepreneur, and that’s where we’ll move now. To the fact that you opened up a store in Province Town Massachusetts, called Klymaxx Unlimited. How did that happen, and why Province Town?
Hera: As far as the name itself is concerned. At the time when I was still modeling in the fur industry, we would travel with the shows. Canada was a very big place we’d go for an international fur exhibit. While I was there, I met up with a Canadian model who, we just took like peas in a pod to one another. She had taken my phone number and said to me, “If I ever decide that I want to come into New York to visit,” She said, “Do you think it’s okay if I come?” I said “Absolutely.”
Again, young, single, living along. Why not. She was a doll. She did. She called me and she came. Long story short, we were both still modeling together. Now she’s in New York, and she decides we’re going to live together. Let’s start a business together. Let’s get out of this whole thing. Let’s start creating something that’s unusual and glamorous. So, they were bustiers. That’s how Klymaxx originated. Probably in 1990 or so. We started buying all of these bras, we bought machines. We worked at home. We created. She sewed, I sold. I went everywhere.
Sandi: So you’re selling bustiers in the nineties.
Hera: In the nineties. Beautiful with accompanying jackets, all kinds of things.
Sandi: Out of your apartment.
Hera: Out of the apartment. In a bag. Going boutique to boutique.
Sandi: You have a lot of hootspa and self-confidence don’t you.
Hera: I do.
Sandi: So, it takes off?
Hera: It takes off.
Sandi: You’re not farming this out to a factory?
Sandi: The two of you like Cinderella in the back room.
Hera: Yep. All night, all morning. Hours and hours. But, at that time, it was ours.
Sandi: Also, you made money.
Hera: We made money.
Sandi: You had seed money for this.
Hera: Absolutely. And we were young. We were strong, and we had stamina. We could stay up late. And I started, on one night a week, on a weekend, on Sunday. I started selling my line with her, in a crazy place that no longer exists. It was Limelight. It was a famous disco tech.
Sandi: Yes, in New York City, of course.
Hera: Which was a church that got converted into a night club. Sunday night was rock and roll night. We were, back in those days, we were like rock and roll chicks. So, we’d wear the bustiers. We’d bring a table. We made our sign. We’d put them there, so as people were walking in and out. We had jeans that were studded with Austrian Crystals. Fringes. Everything hot, unusual and affordable.
Sandi: But, were bustiers new back then?
Sandi: So, you were innovators?
Hera: The type of bustiers we were making. Because these were all handmade and, I wish I even brought you a portfolio of some of the pictures.
Sandi: What did they sell for?
Hera: The most expensive was probably about $450.
Sandi: You’ve got a table at the Limelight Disco,
Hera: [Laughing] On Sunday night.
Sandi: And women are stopping by?
Hera: Men are stopping by, because we had denim jackets that were studded. We had all kinds. It was a little bit of something for everybody. We had jewelry.
Sandi: You sold out?
Hera: We sold out. We made money. We were kicking. She and I were both sitting down having a glass of wine. That’s how we get the most creative.
Hera: We came up with the name Klymaxx, but Klymaxx, so it had a little twist.
Sandi: Umm Hmm
Hera: That’s the name that I carried with me. I kept that name forever.
Sandi: Righted it?
Hera: Absolutely. Again, that part of our life moved on. She moved to California, I kind of let that go. So and so forth. Of course, to Province Town I come.
Sandi: But what drew you to Province Town? I mean, Province Town, which is the furthest point on the Cape,
Sandi: It’s a beautiful town, Cape Cod Massachusetts, it’s just fabulous. But, it’s a largely gay community.
Sandi: So what attracted you to Province Town?
Hera: Truth be told, all those years when I was working in Sacs Fifth Avenue and Bergdorf Goodman, fragrance and cosmetics. The majority of the men that I associated with were all gay.
Sandi: Of course. Well not of course, but…
Hera: Yea. No. Loved them. I still know them, they are in my life.
Sandi: Umm Hmm.
Hera: And every time vacation time came, they’d be saying, come on Hera. Come with us, we’re going to P Town. It’s beautiful. It’s this, it’s that. I said to them, I work with you all day. I work with you every week, why would I want to go to a gay place with you again? I said no.
Hera: So, I didn’t go. Now, friends of mine, we decide we’re going to take a road trip. We’re going to go out to Cape Cod. We’re going to go to Hyanis. Something I’d never done.
Sandi: You wanted to see the Kennedys.
Hera: Yea. We want to that kind of schmaltzy stuff. So, we go. We spend one day in Hyannis, all is well and good. Then we’re driving and there’s Chatom, the sign to Chatham.
Sandi: Mm hmm, very family oriented. Like it there.
Hera: Beautiful. Or Province Town. One of my friends who still lives with me to this day, I’ve known him for thirty-five years. I call him my gay husband, David.
Hera: He’s in the back seat and I go, Province Town! He says, Oh no, we’re not going to Province Town. He says I was there once twenty-five years ago. He goes, I hated it. He was a Fire Island man.
Hera: So, anyway,
Hera: I see the sign, and I turned around and I looked at him. I said, I’m sorry, your gay, we’re going. And off to Province Town we go. We find a hotel room, right on the ocean. I wake up in the morning. I open up the doors, there’s a pool underneath. They’re drinking, the music is going on, everybody is having a great time. For one year, in 2007, after falling in love. Anywhere I went in P Town, everyone I met, was so embracing to me. So loving. I thought to myself, Oh my God. I feel like a big fish in a small fish bowl here. Where in New York, obviously, I was a small fish. Trying to still do it every day, every day. I did, I did it for forty years. I said, Wow, this is pretty special. So, we vacationed for one year. Every chance I got. I was still working for Chanel in New York. I was going there on weekends, long holidays. Then, unfortunately I had to have surgery. While I was healing, and I had some time off from work. I was laying in my bed for the first time for two weeks on medical leave. I had never had that kind of time off. I can’t remember how long, and I’m thinking to myself. You know what, you’re in your fifties now woman. You’re at that cross roads and the time has come for one more change. Didn’t want to go back. Let me tell you something, Sandi, I had everything and anything Chanel could offer. I was covered medical, all kinds of perks.
Sandi: You could have coasted.
Hera: Oh, absolutely. When people heard what I was going to do, they were like, are you crazy. You’re going to give all of that up? In this economy? In 2008? To do this? None of it bothered me. I think the universe actually opened up its heart and doors because everything fell into place, so beautifully, like a puzzle. It was unbelievable. I’m laying bed, and I’m thinking to myself, I don’t know what I really want to do, but I know what I don’t want to do. I picked up the phone, and I called Human Resources, and it was maybe about three days before I was supposed to go back, after medical leave. I told them, it’s time for me to go. Thank you so very much for giving me the opportunity to have my own counter, to do what I did, but I have to go. They were very kind and generous, so I left. Now, mind you, I still don’t know what I’m going to do, but I thought to celebrate, we’re going to P Town.
Sandi: Mm Hm.
Hera: And we did. There was a little small store that had a for rent sign on it,
Sandi: The stars were aligned, huh, Hera?
Hera: The stars were aligned, Sandi, and that was the beginning of a beautiful, encompassing journey that I’m still on to this day. And, because I lived in New York City, and with all my gay friends, I used to get involved with the gay and lesbian community. I would do shows and I would do things. My makeup and so on and so forth. So, I thought, you know what? Province Town, I mean I knew by that time because I had been there for a year, they have shows and entertainment and drag and all kinds of events. I looked around, there wasn’t one makeup store in all of Province Town. That kind of like, I was like, this is Godsend. I said, I’m going to open up a makeup store. That little store got rent paid, before I even opened the door, for three months, until realized. This is too small for who I am and what I want to do. I need bigger and better. So, I found another store, through a friend. Who opened up the doors and said how can you open up a store that is that tiny? Let me show what I got. I opened the door, I said, this is mine.
Sandi: If you’re just joining us, by guest today is Hera Navassardian. A former model, a makeup artist, a stylist, and quite an entrepreneur, and we are talking about her store in Province Town. Klymaxx Unlimited. So you find this space. You breathe new life into the store and you decide that you’re going to focus on makeup mostly?
Hera: Makeup mostly, but I had an opportunity to do something a little bit different. The store is actually, well, the sign says makeup, cosmetics, skin care, handbags, wigs, and much, much more. But it’s a transformation studio.
You ask, what’s a transformation studio? Obviously, it’s what the word says. I take people, whatever gender they may be, and whatever their desires may be, and I transform them. I have all the acrutimons that they need, actually in the store, waiting for that to happen.
Sandi: So, it begs the question. Is a large part of your clientele, for example, men who are transitioning or trans-gendering into women?
Sandi: You must really be one of a kind then aren’t you?
Hera: I hope so. [Laughing]
Sandi: Talk to me about that part of the business. That, so and so, Bruce Jenner comes in.
Hera: Hmm. When we talk about Fantasia Fair. There’s anywhere from three hundred to four hundred people. Four hundred and fifty. They come from all over the world. They’re cross dressers.
Sandi: Mm Hmm
Hera: Which, again, is different than a transsexual.
Hera: Nowadays, it’s not just gay and lesbian. There’s so many adjectives to describe.
Hera: But it is, predominantly, cross dressers and trans-gender people. I have seminars. I thought, seeing them, being with them, knowing them, even in New York, there was something that was the missing link for them. They had the desire. They knew that something was up, but how to put all of this together was probably one of the most difficult things for them.
Sandi: Mm Hmm.
Hera: Because, the only person that they could reflect on, first of all you have to understand, a lot of it is secret.
Sandi: Of course.
Hera: A lot of it is hidden.
Sandi: And painful.
Hera: And so, where to they go, to actually ask someone in the know, can I wear this skirt with this blouse?
Sandi: And feel comfortable asking that person.
Hera: And looking good. They have a wife now that might be good and bad. A lot of these people, my friends; their wives have rejected them. Turned their back on them, or said, listen if that’s what you’re going to do, do it on your own. Leave me out of it. A lot of this happens late in life as well. Now, we have younger people that are coming out. But like the Bruce Jenner’s of the world. A lot of my clientele is like that, they’ve held this in for so many years. So, tell your heterosexual wife now, all of a sudden after twenty five years and maybe two children that you have a desire to either be a woman or dress like one. Very difficult. Extremely difficult.
I wanted them to have a place that made them feel safe, secure and comfortable. That they respected and trusted my knowledge. That’s what I started doing with them. I gave them a place to come where they had their wigs, their makeup, their clothes, their accessories, the jewelry, the handbags, and I would teach.
Sandi: And the validation.
Hera: Absolutely. With no judgment. Unconditional love. Because I really do, firmly, absolutely, positively, definitely feel this in my heart. Because, the reward that I get as corny as this may sound, is so immense. The love that they give back to me. I travel with my company to different locations, where they have these conferences, for a weekend. I bring Klymaxx with me there. We have a room for vendors. Whether they’re plastic surgeons or dentists. For people to go through those transformations and transitions. I bring Klymaxx. I provide a different service for them.
Sandi: Mm Hmm
Hera: So, when they’re with me in Province Town, we have one week in October every year, forty years in the making, that’s called Fantasia Fair. We’re providing them with a fashion show, banquets, award dinners.
Sandi: Who is them? Are you talking about trans-gender or cross dressing men?
Sandi: Both. Okay.
Sandi: Alright, go ahead.
Hera: Because it is an organization that has been in the making forty years, they have their presidents and vice presidents and so on
Sandi: They have a track record.
Hera: Absolutely. A beautiful one. They have been coming to Province Town for forty years, because it’s the only place that would accept them. When this is happening to them, they rely on each other. Maybe they’ll get together in somebody’s house for night. Maybe they’ll be able to talk to their wife eventually, but who’s going to guide them and teach them that, you know what? You don’t wear that striped skirt with a polka dotted blouse. And wear all your gold and silver jewelry with a little pink headband in your hair. Then they become garish, and that’s not what they want, but they
Sandi: They want to blend in.
Hera: They want to do the real deal.
Sandi: Mm Hmm
Hera: So, why not me? I can teach, I can do all of this. I’ve done the makeup. I’ve done the runway. I’ve done every aspect. So, now you walk into this beautiful store, which visually, it’s like a child being in a candy store.
Sandi: I can’t believe it Hera, but I knew it. We’ve run out of time.
Hera: That’s quite all right.
Sandi: It’s been such a pleasure to get to know you, and it sounds like
Hera: Same here.
Sandi: Klymaxx is just such a labor of love and provides such a, I’m going to use this term, public service.
Hera: It is.
Sandi: Despite the fact that it’s a business, so it’s wonderful.
Hera: It’s a business by name; but people come there not, they come there for me.
Sandi: Well, it’s your passion also.
Hera: They come for me.
Sandi: What a great marriage for you.
Hera: It is. It is. I have developed some wonderful friendships. We travel together now. Some of my friends from Fantasia Fair. We’ll meet each other in different places. We’ll go and do different things. They’ll come to see me in New York. Believe it or not, I really want to reach out to Bruce Jenner.
Hera: I really do. I have his agent’s phone number.
Sandi: Well, there you go.
Hera: I, because I feel for him. I watched the interview.
Sandi: Sure, it was huge.
Hera: It was huge.
Sandi: Tremendous traction.
Hera: It’s very familiar to me, what he’s going
Sandi: I bet it is, I bet it is. Well, Hera, you’ll come back and you’ll talk to us about that if that
Hera: I promise
Sandi: If that relationship should take off.
Hera: I’m going to do everything I can to make sure it does.
Sandi: Excellent. Thank you so much Hera.
Hera: My pleasure Sandi. Thank you.
Sandi: Join us for another edition of Conversations with Creative Women. I’m Sandi Klein.